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Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

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  • 1.  Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    Posted Nov 21, 2013 11:04 AM

    I recently upgraded to 6.2 and RSSI has been significantly lower for my daily laptop.  After looking into it, I found that the AP I usually associate to is running at a much lower EIRP than usual.  I started checking into other APs and found a downward trend in EIRP for most APs.  On 6.1, most APs were running around 18 - 21.5, but now the average is 12 - 15. My 11a ARM profiles are set to defaults, min/max EIRP are used. These settings were not modified after the upgrade.

     

    I'm not confident that it's a 6.2 issue, but that's the last significant change that been made.  Anyone notice similar behavior on 6.2?  



  • 2.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    Posted Nov 21, 2013 11:15 AM

     

    What AOS version are you using ? and APs ?



  • 3.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    Posted Nov 21, 2013 11:16 AM

    6.2.1.3 & AP105.



  • 4.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    Posted Nov 21, 2013 11:18 AM

    In areas where I have more APs I'm seeing this downward trend.  In areas that contain APs that are less dense, they're running at a much higher EIRP.  I'm going through RF history right now to see if I can spot any trends.



  • 5.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    Posted Nov 21, 2013 11:23 AM

     

    In 6.2 they are added some ARM scanning enhancements for APs with no clients associated so will allow the ARM to calculate it power/channel adjusments much better. 

     

    Also what are you using 20 or 40 Mhz channels ?



  • 6.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    EMPLOYEE
    Posted Nov 21, 2013 11:25 AM

    Arm history should tell you why.

     

    If you are using airwave the rf health report will tell you what access points have


    @thecompnerd wrote:

    In areas where I have more APs I'm seeing this downward trend.  In areas that contain APs that are less dense, they're running at a much higher EIRP.  I'm going through RF history right now to see if I can spot any trends.



    the most power/channel changes.



  • 7.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    Posted Nov 21, 2013 12:33 PM

    I'm using 20MHz channels.

     

    It looks like a possible co-channel interference issue.  I'm seeing several APs sharing the same channel on the same floor.  I have client aware enabled and the noise threshold is set to default.  Maybe I'm not giving the APs any opportunity to change channels as a result of these settings.



  • 8.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    EMPLOYEE
    Posted Nov 21, 2013 12:49 PM

    If you want to be super-conservative, you can turn of client-aware at night.



  • 9.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    Posted Nov 21, 2013 01:13 PM

    Good call.  Will do that tonight.



  • 10.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    Posted Nov 22, 2013 08:26 AM

    Disabled client aware last night.  Came back this morning and re-enabled.  Channel reuse is a little bit better, but half of the APs are still operating at 9dBm.  Going to open up a TAC case.



  • 11.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    EMPLOYEE
    Posted Nov 22, 2013 09:01 AM

    If they are operating at 9, that would mean that your density is great.  For any access point, type:

     

    "show ap monitor ap-list ap-name name-of-ap | include valid"

     

    That will show you how many access points one access point can see.  Having a power of 9 is only a problem if you have coverage holes as a result.  How far apart are your access points, and/or how many do you have per floor?

     



  • 12.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    Posted Nov 22, 2013 09:28 AM

    I would agree, but I can tell you that power levels changed dramatically after the 6.2 upgrade.  Power's been cut from 18-21.5 dBm down to 9dBm on half of the APs.  Looking at Airwave I've not seeing any holes, but RSSI has been significantly reduced from my computer's perspective.  So much so that my computer is consistently choosing 11bgn BSSIDs.

     

     

    show ap monitor ap-list ap-name 5SAP03 phy-type 80211a ap-type valid

     

    Results in 55 BSSIDs.

     

    Average distance between APs is 40ft.  5 APs per floor in several multi-story buildings. Roughly 10,000 sq ft/per floor.



  • 13.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    EMPLOYEE
    Posted Nov 22, 2013 09:31 AM

    @thecompnerd wrote:

    I would agree, but I can tell you that power levels changed dramatically after the 6.2 upgrade.  Power's been cut from 18-21.5 dBm down to 9dBm on half of the APs.  Looking at Airwave I've not seeing any holes, but RSSI has been significantly reduced from my computer's perspective.  So much so that my computer is consistently choosing 11bgn BSSIDs.

     

     

    show ap monitor ap-list ap-name 5SAP03 phy-type 80211a ap-type valid

     

    Results in 55 BSSIDs.

     

    Average distance between APs is 40ft.  5 APs per floor in several multi-story buildings. Roughly 10,000 sq ft/per floor.


    I would not question that the algorithm might have changed.  Are you using Voice?

     



  • 14.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    Posted Nov 22, 2013 09:32 AM

    Yes, I use MS Lync over Wifi exclusively.  Call quality has been noticeably bad.



  • 15.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    EMPLOYEE
    Posted Nov 22, 2013 09:41 AM

    Unless you are using a VOIP handset, you might have too much coverage, floors and ceilings easily penetrable by RF or a combination of both.  If ARM turns down the power to 9 in 802.11a channels, AND you are doing 20mhz channels on the a band, it has to be much worse on the 2.4ghz band, unless you are not using all of your radios.



  • 16.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    Posted Nov 22, 2013 09:57 AM

    I definitely think we have too much coverage on 2.4.  Power levels for 2.4 have consistently been at 9 dBm for the majority. Min/Max EIRP is 9 and 15.  Looking right now, I don't have a single AP operating higher than 9 dBm on 2.4.  I would say that's about normal; no change after the upgrade.  Mode aware hasn't been enabled for 11g arm profiles.  show ap monitor ap-list ap-name 5SAP03 phy-type 80211b ap-type valid results in about 20 more APs beeing displayed.

     

    If too much coverage is an issue, I just don't understand how it all of a sudden changed after the upgrade.  I wouldn't expect that the intelligent ARM scanning improvements would make that much of a difference.  I'm tempted to roll back to 6.1 to see if anything changes.



  • 17.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    EMPLOYEE
    Posted Nov 22, 2013 02:21 PM

    Compnerd,

     

    The wildcard here is that you have client-aware on, so constant adjustments cannot be made.  If you want to put a "floor" on the power that access points receive, you can certainly do this with the arm min tx power setting.  In your circumstance, however, you possibly have too much coverage, so your access points will always be at the Min setting because they will see too many access points on the same channel.

     

    For VOIP with handsets on 5ghz, we have deployed in some hospitals at every 50 feet, and the access points between 12 and 18 and gotten good performance.  Unless you have pretty good attenuation, like concrete walls, your access points might end up on the lowest transmit power regardless of the version of code.  Long story short, the change in behavior may be notable, but only if it creates coverage holes.  You can uncheck client aware during the day to see how they settle when the full compliment of clients are in the spectrum.  It normally does not create alot of disruption.  9 is the lowest that you should go, because any less, will not match the output power of the clients that are connecting and possibly cause communication issues.   All your access points at 9 after allowing them to change overnight means that ARM thinks your spectrum is crowded -- just my 2 cents.

     

    You can set the transmit power very, very low, but most if not all clients are at full power, and STILL can interfere with each other and other access points...   So the lowest common denominator alot of times is client transmit power.



  • 18.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    Posted Nov 22, 2013 02:36 PM

    Thanks, I appreciate your input.

     

    I agree with your assessment, I'm just struggling with explaining the change after upgrading.  TAC suggested bumping up the min tx, but indicated the lower power levels are probably being used because ARM is seeing a high noise floor.  If ARM has reasonable intelligence about air quality, I would think it's counter-intuitive for me to try and override what ARM is attempting to do.

     

    Fair point regarding client aware.  I'm up for disabling it, I've just been concerned about any issues it may cause.  I'm a scaredy-cat. :)



  • 19.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    Posted Nov 22, 2013 02:52 PM

    Quick question about client aware.  Is it advisable to disable client aware for MS Lync shops?  All phone calls are made on the PC - no desk phones.  I spoke an Aruba network principal engineer that said the Lync ALGs are not present until 6.3 so VoIP aware won't be honored if Lync calls are active.  More or less wanting to confirm this in case it will be disruptive to voice calls to disable client aware.



  • 20.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    EMPLOYEE
    Posted Nov 22, 2013 05:02 PM

    @thecompnerd wrote:

    Quick question about client aware.  Is it advisable to disable client aware for MS Lync shops?  All phone calls are made on the PC - no desk phones.  I spoke an Aruba network principal engineer that said the Lync ALGs are not present until 6.3 so VoIP aware won't be honored if Lync calls are active.  More or less wanting to confirm this in case it will be disruptive to voice calls to disable client aware.


    The big question is, do you already have the ACLs in place for Lync based on the document here?  http://www.arubanetworks.com/pdf/partners/PSB_MicrosoftLync.pdf

     

     



  • 21.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    Posted Nov 22, 2013 05:44 PM
    Yes.


  • 22.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade

    EMPLOYEE
    Posted Nov 22, 2013 05:46 PM

    Well,

     

    I would turn off client aware for one day.  If the target is dealing with Lync issues, you need to improve the network it runs on top of, or the RF.  We have to also figure out if you can use get by with less density, because that would improve your throughput and decrease delays and drops.

     



  • 23.  RE: Low EIRP on 11a radios after 6.2 upgrade
    Best Answer

    Posted Jun 09, 2014 12:00 AM

    Resolved some time ago.  Here is an update.

     

    40MHz channels were disabled in the SSID HT profile, but not the ARM profile.  This caused some very wild tx power results as noted in my original post.  Found the solution after stumbling upon this post: http://community.arubanetworks.com/t5/07-19-13-Expert-Day/How-to-turn-off-40Mhz-channel-for-802-11n-radio/td-p/86856

     

    As far as I know I had the same settings in 6.1 before upgrading, but the I don't remember seeing a problem until 6.2.  Either way, the fix was disabling 40MHz channels in the ARM profile.