Wireless Access

last person joined: an hour ago 

Access network design for branch, remote, outdoor and campus locations with Aruba access points, and mobility controllers.
Expand all | Collapse all

Qualcomm DBS : PHY 3602

This thread has been viewed 28 times
  • 1.  Qualcomm DBS : PHY 3602

    Posted Jun 07, 2021 10:40 AM
    And agregation 2 fréquences in 2x2Mimo : 5ghz (PHY 1201) + 6ghz (PHY 2401) 

    can anyone tell me if he ever managed to have this PHY 3602 synchronization. Or if the Aruba Model 630 (or whatever) really knows how to do that. @aruba?

    Thx


    ------------------------------
    FMU FMU
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Qualcomm DBS : PHY 3602

    Posted Jun 08, 2021 02:08 PM
    The way the (Qualcomm proprietary) DBS feature is presented in that video relies entirely on client (chipset) capabilities, and works with any dual-band concurrent access point (i.e. most of the Aruba AP portfolio). This capability can be considered a precursor for the MLO (multi-link operation) feature that you will see in future Wi-Fi 7 products (in a couple of years).
    Here's what Qualcomm had to say about DBS:


    On the AP side, we define DBS / TBS as follows: 

    DBS  - Dual Band Simultaneous  -  having 2 bands supported at any given time (i.e. AP535)

    TBS – Tri-Band Simultaneous – having 3 bands supported at any given time (i.e. AP635)

     

    On the client side – most clients are dual band, but can't operate on both bands at the same time.

    The new QC chipsets can operate on 2 bands at the same time  - hence they can be defined as DBS.


    Indeed, in high level it seems like a pre-MLO feature, but it does not require any unique support from the AP side. The reason is that the 2 links (i.e. 2.4GHz and 5GHz ) are completely separated and the AP sees the DBS STA as 2 unique clients which have different MAC and IP addresses.

    This means no special logic / optimization is applied on the AP side between the 2 links.

    In summary, I guess you could say the Aruba APs fully support DBS and TBS  ;-)



    ------------------------------
    Onno Harms
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Qualcomm DBS : PHY 3602

    Posted Jun 08, 2021 03:23 PM
    Hello,

    First of all, thank you for your feedback. It's not easy to find someone who has mastered this subject at the start of 2021. As a result, I sincerely didn't think I had an answer, so I didn't go into detail. Thing I'm gonna do right now.

    We are a French test and engineering lab.

    I totally agree with your return, DBS, TBS.
    My subject here is only DBS and with only device (phone).
    We have several models Snapdragon 888, Fastconnect 6900. (Xiaomi Mi11, OnePlus 9, Samsung S21, ...)

    To date our goal is to be able to have a 2.4ghz + 5ghz or 5ghz + 6ghz wifi aggregation on a single device. A kind of DBS SU-MIMO.

    It's clear :

    Xiaomi AX6000:

    5ghz: PHY 2882 (4K QAM)
    2,4ghz: PHY 720
    DBS : PHY 3602
    Result: We managed to have a stable synchronization from a PHY to 3602. But unfortunately no throughput. We have contacted, Xiaomi are aware of the problem and we are waiting for a firmware update for AX6000.

    Netgear: RAX or RAXE
    Absolutely not working. We have contacted them but we have no feedback to date.

    Aruba:
    We don't have a recent model so it doesn't work on the ones we have.
    You tell me the Model 535 works. I take your word for it, but do you have a video proving it so that we don't buy a model for nothing.

    If I understand correctly on this model it would be:
    2,4ghz: PHY 1200
    5ghz: PHY 2402
    DBS: PHY 3602

    So I understand your feedback on the fact that all APs should work with a DBS device like fastconnect 6900. But apparently we can't and that according to the only feedback we have from Xiaomi there is indeed a manipulation of their side, on their AP.

    Looking forward to continuing to share with you.

    Thanking you in advance,
    Regards,

    ------------------------------
    Florian
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Qualcomm DBS : PHY 3602

    Posted Jun 08, 2021 05:18 PM
    Hi Florian,

    I don't believe that at Aruba we've done any testing on this feature from the client device perspective, to confirm that the DBS throughput is indeed the sum of the individual radios. But I would certainly not expect that a combined PHY rate of 3.6Gbps is realistic. Most/all 11ax client devices are 2SS capable, and will not be able to support the datarates you're expecting. For 2.4GHz (HE40) you may get up to 573.5Mbps. Best case for 5GHz would indeed be 2.4Gbps, but that would require HE160.
    The information I shared about no dependency on AP radios came from Qualcomm. If your findings contradict that, you may want to talk to them, since this is a Qualcomm proprietary feature. We make no claims about DBS (support nor performance).

    ------------------------------
    Onno Harms
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Qualcomm DBS : PHY 3602

    Posted Jun 09, 2021 06:24 AM
    Hi Onno,

    OK, I thank you for your feedback.
    Unfortunately communication with Qualcomm seems complicated :)

    If you ever do some testing and remember this thread, I'll be happy to hear your feedback.


    Just to clarify the client devices with fastconnect 6900 are all (to my knowledge for the moment) in 8SS and all compatible with PHY 3602 on the paper, but in real ... :)

    Very good day,
    Florian


    ------------------------------
    FMU FMU
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Qualcomm DBS : PHY 3602

    Posted Jun 09, 2021 04:23 PM
    Hi Florian,

    Not sure what you mean by client devices being "in 8SS", but all mainstream 11ax client chipset and devices (including all of Qualcomm's ones) can do 1SS or 2SS per radio only, so the peak datarate will be limited to 2SS rates in the applicable channel bandwidth.

    ------------------------------
    Onno Harms
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Qualcomm DBS : PHY 3602

    Posted Sep 13, 2021 06:59 AM