Wireless Access

Hello wireless friends,

 

I'm in a pickle and need some advice. I was foolishly led into buying a total of 21 APs and believing they could be ran on one instant cluster. This was confimed as achievable by the large Aruba Partner I bought from.

 

We have (all IAP) 3x135, 3x134, 7x105, 8x93.

 

As you can already see, we're limited to 16 APs in the cluster because of the 93s. The head engineer for our reseller told me that if I made sure a 135 was the master and I was upgraded to a certain firmware version, I would be able to have more than 16 APs. After countless hours, dedicated due to the insistance of the engineer, I was unable to manipulate the cluster to allow >16. 

 

So, I could return the 8x93s and have some credit to go towards 105s, but the areas the 93s are in are really only for a couple clients and is therefore not a cost efficient move.

 

What I'm leaning towards, and would like some advice on, is whether or not I should buy a 3200 Controller. We have a fairly large campus but should have no issues with the 2,048 user limitation. Will our current APs, running on 6.2.1.0-3.4.0.3_40346, be easily changed to campus aps? Are the 3200s still supported by Aruba? Is the management software at least as good as or better than the Instant software I'm currently using? Note: I found a used 3200 for fairly cheap; much less than the cost of 8x105s.

 

The main goal of mine is to have all our APs on one cluster. I do not want to use AirWave or Aruba Central to combine two clusters or anything along those lines.

 

Thank you for your time and advice.

 

 

Steven

#3200
#AP135

Steven,

Since you have already gone through this exercise, I would contact your local Aruba sales team and get advice from them.

The truth is that you cannot achive more than 16 in one cluster if you got 1 instant 93 on it... Just 1 intant 93 will lock the cluster to 16...

 

The only way to have it centrilized are these 3 options

 

1-Aruba Central = Managing differnt cluster with the Aruba Central

2-Airwave = Managing different clusters with the airwave

3- Buying a controller

 

Now you have to analyze things:

If you go for the controller you need to take in mind that you willl loose your redundancy!( if the controller dies all your system will go down) Unless you buy another controller and have it on VRRP on stanby or have the second controller on local mode.

 

As a personal opinion, if that partner told you that you will be able to put everything in one cluster even if you had IAP93 there is something wrong with that partner, i would go and contact another one.... i mean this is something really basic. and they should have known this.

With my clients i tell them really clear that if they put one IAP 93 in their cluster it will be locked to 16 APS.

 

Now what you should do? well it depends on your budget, and the features you want.  Are you okay with the features you already got with instant? or are you looking for more features? such as VPN Termination which is really handly sometimes, or a captive portal that can manage users that expire?

You need to ask yourselft

1-What is my budget?

2-What you are looking for?

3-the company can keep working without wireless? or everything will stop if you dont have wireless??( This is for the redundancy part) At least i got a few clients in which they are full Wireless and if that doesnt work they all go down! so they need redundancy!) is this is your case???

 

Cheers

Carlos

 

 

Also if you buying a 3200 chekc that is a 3200MX

the 3200MX supports 6.2.x  firwmare and  6.3.x

The 3200 alone will not support 6.2.x or 6.3.x

And to make it work you will need to buy a additional Memory to your controller

I tell you this because on the other topic you said you were thinking in buying a used one.  

As a personal opinion i would buy a new one.  I personally dont like used stuff in anything.

 

Cheers

Carlos

Hi Carlos,

 

Thank you for your details responses (on both posts).

 

I'm glad you pointed out the MX thing. I had no idea. I believe the one I'm looking at is just 3400. I'm waiting to hear back from the seller. I'm also waiting to hear back on the licensing status. 

 

So a given controller can be sold with no licensing? Or must some kind of licensing be bought or included on the initial purchase? I'm trying to clarify that without a seperate, paid for license, a controller is useless.

 

Yes, I am totally fine with the basic features of Instant. Our firewalling, web filters, rules, etc, are taken care of elsewhere. That's why I don't see sense in going with Aruba Care or AirWave.

 

My budget is "most efficient". So again, no need for centralized user management. I basically just want a wireless network that is roamable. I had two instant clusters on seperate VLANS with the same BSSID's, but I know they don't really "roam" or "hand off" clients properly that way. 

 

As far as redundancy, it's not a huge issue on our wireless network. I would prefer it though (via instant, not seconday controllers).

You can always use the instant have 2 clusters and configure L3 roaming!

If thats what you looking for, i mean just to roam... and if you dont care having 2 clusters.  If so there is no need to buy a controller for that

 

Cheers

CArlos

I read that, layer 3 roaming that is, but don't I need some other licensed product for that (Aruba Central or AirWave)? If not, what?

No you dont it jsut config...

Here is a video that will clarify you more about the layer 3 roaming.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nSu2nG3c3A&feature=share&list=PL37Y-XxK6oakHnfuH3oE2E8arGF-Q6BpZ&index=12

 

Hope this helps you.

 

Cheers

Carlos

There is something you need to know

 

Instant = Does not need ANY licesnse ( The only ting that you will ever need to purshase for it is the support of it or the aruba care of it) but you will not need any license

Controller= Now here you need to purshase, AP licesnse, PENGF Licenses, RF Protect Licsense and so on.

 

You should ask your local reseller to hep you to configure this if you cannot do it yourself.

 

Cheers

Carlos

i agree with Colin, you should talk more with you local sales team; but a couple of items to consider:

 

• With an IAP-93 as part of the cluster, you'll be limited to 16
• You could consider setting up two clusters; one with IAP-93s and one without
• Be careful with mixing IAP-93s (single radio) with other IAPs in the same area if you have band steerring enabled
• The 3200 (non 3200XM model) was end of sale in January 2012.....see next item
• The 3200 controller needs a memory upgrade kit (3200-MEM-UG)  to run ArubaOS 6.2+

Anything beyond that, I suggest you contact your local Aruba team.

clembo,

 

Thanks for your response.

 

I was also recommended the two cluster option by my reseller after I told them the delema. It just limits my scalability, as I would like full campus coverage (about 45 APs) in the future. 

 

They are willing to help me by crediting the 93s towards 115s, but not 105s. I guess it's been too long since the purchase so I can't simply return them. I had a large gap between the purchase and now (when I discovered the issue).

 

So, if I go controller, I buy the non MX, the upgrade, but some kind of licensing as well? I think Carlos might already be working on this response, but which licensing do I need? Can I just use the controller as is and unlicensed for basic features? 

"So, if I go controller, I buy the non MX, the upgrade, but some kind of licensing as well? I think Carlos might already be working on this response, but which licensing do I need? Can I just use the controller as is and unlicensed for basic features? "

 

Okay if you buy a 3400 there is no MX or anything

The MX is just for the 3200....

 

IT does not upgrade any licesne the licenses for a 3200 and a 3200mx are equal.

 

You cannot use the controller unlicensed... you need at least the AP licesnse to work with the basic features.

 

Cheers

Carlos

 

 

---

@stevensedory wrote:

So, if I go controller, I buy the non MX, the upgrade, but some kind of licensing as well? I think Carlos might already be working on this response, but which licensing do I need? Can I just use the controller as is and unlicensed for basic features? 

---

If the controller comes from a used source, it may come with licensing or it may come without.   You'll need a minimum of XX AP licenses to allow your APs to connect.   You'll then need matching number of PEFNG licenses (Policy Enforcement Firewall) to enable role assignment and firewall capabilities.

Another thing you should consider is that

In an IAP 93 cluster the maximum quiantity of concurrent clients in that cluster  its 256 concurrent connections per group.

Also consider that if the places you got IAP 93 are High density areas then you can consider changing those to IAP 115 at least.

If they are low density areas in which there are like 5 to 10 users on it and if there arent too many  Noise on the 2.4ghz, there is no need to change the IAP 93s from there.

 

Cheers

CArlos

Forgot telling you that in fact you dont need the partner help you with the configuratoin of the L3 roaming.

If you got your aruba care up to date(of your IAPS) then you will be able to open a support ticket directly from Aruba on the support   aruba webpage.  They can help you to configure it.

 

Cheers

Carlos

Thanks Carlos. I'm fairly network savy and don't fear the few trial runs to get it setup correctly. I just didn't know L3 Mobility existed! You would have though my resellers engineer would have mentioned it!

 

Clembo, thanks for all your knowledge on the controller side. It has helped me to confim that I want to stay Instant.

Thank you guys so much. A lot has been clarified for me in the past hour.

 

THEE answer to my unclear question has been answered: L3 Mobility (under System in Instant). I had no idea I could do cluster to cluster roaming. My next project is designing the clusters physically in a way that makes sense.

 

ALSO, I had no idea that along with limiting the APs to 16, that 90 series APs also limited the users! That makes so much sense as to why our network has dropped to an average of 250 users! I thought it was because I put an Agreement page on our public network.

 

So, that being said, I should definitly have NONE of the 93s in the cluster that expects high density. Is that fair to say? Otherwise it will be limited to 256 users?

 

The slight problem is that I have some 93s in certain locations right in the middle of non 93 APs. Do you think that will be an issue since they'll be on different clusters?

Yes  AP 93 are not for High Density.  They are more for low density areas

Remenber AP 93 is a dual band SINGLE radio AP, which mean it will be able to being use in just one band at time for example users will be able to use the 2.4ghz band but not the 5ghz band, it use the 2.4ghz OR 5ghz band

 

In the AP 105 i can use both as its DUAL BAND DUAL RADIO, so you can have more users connected to those  APS.  But still the AP 105 are not for high density areas...

 

AP 93 has a low memory and procesor and thats why its limited to 16 APs and 256 users per cluster.

AP 105 has a better cpu and memory, but is not for HIGH density areas..

AP 135 does have a good cpu and memory and its a AP for high density areas.

 

Now i would place all AP 93 in low density areas and will place all 93 in a single cluster.

All the others APS i would put it in the second cluster.

 

Take in mind also that  Instant Group of IAP-9x can support up to 256 concurrent connections and an Instant Group of IAP-10x / 13x / 175 / RAP-3 can support up to 1,024 concurrent connections.

If you mix IAP-9x and any other IAP  i mean IAP-10x / 13x  etc.  You will end up reducing the cluster to 16 APs again.

 

Cheers

Carlos

Carlos,

 

Thanks, you have been very helpful. I was unaware of the instant limitation of 1,024 (if no 9x exists). That's good to know as we expand our network. 

Well you can always create more clusters

having 2 clusters of 1024 each and one of 256(which is the 93 AP cluster) :)

 

If you got a good budget i would buy 2 3400 for the redundancy. 

3400 you can put up to 64 APS(if you dong the redundancy you need to buy the same licesnses in the other Controller.)

 

Cheers

Carlos