Wireless Access

Hi,

 

We have a customer upgrading their existing WIFI network, which is pure Cisco aironet network. One of the local Cisco partner quoted pair of WLC 5760 with 3700 APs. Customer is using Cisco H-REAP in branch compuses.

 

We are trying to scope out Aruba solution to compete. Any suggestions from here? What models and benifits offerred by Aruba except the price delta?

 

P.S. while I was researching, I read an article online of 3rd party testing comparing 3700 and AP225. The result shows a big advantage over the AP225 though... 

There arent almost no clients that got 802.11ac 4x4... so i can tell you they will have a nice Cisco AP 3700 ac 4x4 doing nothing in there... they wont be able to use it...

 

Remenber that you also need clients ac 4x4 so it can work at those speeds.  If you dont have them, then you are paying for something you are not using. 

Client does not know this, you have to tell him about this!

 

IS the cisco shop quoting them IPS/IDS?

 

Remenber aruba got build in IPS/IDS, stateful firewall and Cisco does not have anything of that! they have to quote them separately!

You can take that in advantage thatt your controller can do that alone...

The cisco 5760 Support for up to 1000 access points and 12,000 clients per controller

If you compare a aruba 7220 support up to 1024 APS and 24 576 clients( a way more than what cisco box can suppport)

 

If it a big campus fo r example a university  and yo know they got more than 6000 users then you can tell them that each users brings up to 2 or 3 devices  and the 7200 can keep up witht  that...

Peoeple just look at the number of APS but they never look at the number of devices that are able to connect to it.

7200 is a better hardware for sure.

Also you should ask your SE for help! isnt he helping you?

 

Cheers

Carlos

 

 

#7220

Thanks, we need quick turn around and our partner se is travelling...

Isn't the ips/ids require extra license on aruba side? U r right for the client limitation but more spatial stream is always better, right?

Btw, this teating shows that 3700 still performers we'll with large amount of users over ap225. This is something I concern about.
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/wireless/ps5678/ps13367/miercom-report-cisco-ap-3702i.pdf

What about PoE? My customer wont spend money buying new switches to support 802.3at... So how good ap perform when powered but standard 802.3af?

This is what you will loose

Power over Ethernet (PoE): 48 Vdc (nominal) 802.3af or
802.3at-compliant source
-
Efficient mode PoE – power save with 802.3af PoE and
limited functionality
»
USB port disabled
»
Second Ethernet port disabled
»
2.4-GHz 802.11n radio in 1x3:1 spatial-stream mode
»
5-GHz 802.11ac radio operates without restrictions*
-
Unrestricted functionality with 802.3at PoE+

 

I really dont get it

He doesnt want to waste money on POE+ switches but he wants to buy lastest cisco ac ap? it makes no sense...

 

Looks like budget plays a good role in here then...  If that so then you should be in a good shape with Aruba...

 

You cannot compare Cisco 3700 with ARuba 225, they are not in the same league you are comparing orange with apples.

 

AP 225 is 3x3 and Cisco 3700 is 4x4

 

Yes the IPS/IDS take extra license... but its cheaper than a new box.

 

More reciving, transmiting and spartial streams antennas indded are better but when you can really take advantage of it!   And if you dont have a client which can support 4x4 antenas then you wont take advantage of it

 

HAve you ever wondered why you ever had a 2x2 AP or 3x3 AP 802.11n  and you got clients connecting at 65mbs?

I always get this quetions from our clients... i always need to tell then that sadly their  laptops, or tablets are just 1x1 and that just can reach 65mbs even if your AP is 3x3 your client just 1x1 so you wont go faster than 65mbs and thats becasue a client limitation, not an AP limitation!

 

Cheers

Carlos

if it urgent you should ask your territory manager to get you another SE, it seems like a big proyect

 

Cheers

Carlos

I did not say they will buy for sure. What we are doing is to get in the discussion first as cisco 3700 is in talk already.

So aruba doesnot have ap currently to compete with 3700?

What u suggestion on the ap model, ap115?

The AP-22x will run with all features on .at power on code 6.3.1.x and later.

Well what does the client wants?

He wants 802.11ac aps?

Does your client realize how much the 3700 of Cisco will cost them? i think its like 1700 price list...

 

Cheers

Carlos

Actually the basic requirement is to expend the coverage. But their controllers cannot handle more APs...

What model of APS they got ? controller he has?

How many devices are connecting  etc? it would be nice good infor so we can all help you out.   All the info you can give of the scenario would be helpful

 

Do they have aruba already? if so you got advantage already.

 

Cheers

Carlos

They have mixed of cisco APs and two 5508 controllers. No aruba or other vendors.

About 200-ap currently.

Okay wait a second a 5508???

the 5508 support 500 APS

They dont  even need to upgrde the controller

Are they aiming to buy more than 300 APS? or the cisco shop just want to make more money? hahaha

 

Cheers

Carlos

 

More than 300 APs for the upgrade. Customer has couple of new branch campuses.

BTW, what is the aruba technology for replacing the cisco HREAP?

Im not really sure how that cisco technology works as the HREAP is suppposed to let you manage AP over WAN links... but with Aruba you can manage AP over wan links with no issue,

If you going through Internet yuou can always use the ap on RAP mode.

 

If you concern of using the AP over a wan link and the BW is a problem you can always put it on bridge mode... 

You need to ask your client what does he actually needs... dont try to compre technologies i dont think there is a exact technology of Aruba for that.  As like i told you you can manage APS over wan links without any fancy techonology...

 

Try focusing on your client needs, and your highlighs... dont go in there bashing cisco... as the clients itself does not like to hear that they made a bad decision at first for choosing cisco :)

 

Cheers

Carlos

 

Thanks, appreciate the help.

Customer uses hreap right now over MPLs. They want to keep the setup or at least similar from other vendors. I need to know the products so I could try to convince why they need to replace cisco.

Well you dont need any fancy technology with Aruba...

As long as the AP can see the controller he will be able to connect to it and you will be able to manage it...

 

If you are going through the internet you can put it on as RAP mode...

 

Now how many APS does he has in each branch office?

 

Cheers

Carlos

The controllers are in HQ, so the ap traffic must go over MPLs .
With HREAP, When two wireless clients connect to the same ap or APs in the same branch, clients can communicate directly not over MPLs to the controller....unless client is accessing data centre.

This is fancy to me...they prefer to keep this...

Take a look through the Remote Access Point Validated Reference Design. It goes over the basics of how the technology works and also some of the more advanced configuration options.

 

http://www.arubanetworks.com/vrd/RAPVRD/wwhelp/wwhimpl/js/html/wwhelp.htm

 

 

Thanks for the link.

 

I had a glance and it seems complicated to setup...I will read more later. I doubt customer will spend the effort or money to do advanced configure for this project.

Is not an advace configuration is a simple configuration...

Like i said if the AP on the other site can communicate  then you can control that ap through the controller...

You dont neve need to setup a remote AP you can setup it as a campus ap.

 

You know actually the cisco config looks more complicated...

 

Just a quetiion, are you sales, presales or postsales??

 

Cheers

Carlos

It is not about managing the APs that located in branches...it is that wireless clients traffic to each other in the same branch or wireless client traffic to a local printer in the same branch need to stay local, not cross MPLs to controller then cross MPLs back to destination. Unless the destination is on the same side of the controller.

Consider myself doing all...we are not big :)

This is easily accomplished with RemoteAPs using split-tunnel and local bridging.

Well im on your same boat...

i do have to do everything related to Aruba here.

 

Tim already answered your question on his last message

 

Cheers

Carlos

You should take some instructor led aruba course!

Then you will understand how easy is seting up aruba gear.

 

Cheers

Carlos

That makes sense. Is there any free partner training?

Thanks

But the aruba controller can do that already.....

All the AP build a GRE tunnel to the controller which means that all the data travel from the ap to the controller. 

 

Just to give you an example so your better understanding

 

Let say i the central office you got vlan 4, and you got in the central ofice the SSID ArubaNetworks
You bind that Vlan 4 to the Arubanetworks SSID.  

 

That Arubanetworks SSID you can use it on the branch network with the same vlan even if the vlan 4 does not exist in the remote office.  And thats because of the GRE tunnel...

 

Like i said you dont need anything, aruba controller does it by itself alrady!

They will be able to keep that with the aruba controller

 

I got many clients with APS over WAN links and they get the same vlan and ip addresssing of the central office WLAN and the same SSID as if they were on the central office...

You can even achive the same even with RAPS over the internet.... the technology of Aruba is awsome...

 

 

i dont kow if that answer your question?